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+---- Thread: .Jarz Meta-Power Gaming. (/showthread.php?tid=60445)
RE: .Jarz Meta-Power Gaming. - Rolorox - 05-14-2015
Unless you saw him previously in a gun dealer get up or selling guns getting into this van with the same license plate, then I see no way you would have been able to piece this together. Without proof of you doing this (as I cannot just believe you saying "I did see this") then it seems you did indeed meta-game to see he is a gundealer and powergame by using a police database which we do not have. If at any point you put something in the radio like (gun dealer traveling in transit van, license plate ******) then you could have referred back to that. But even then would still need to know how you know he is a gun dealer.
As far as I can see this is meta/power gaming.
Edit: Also you need to realize not every person in the world is in the police database. Especially not having a record, so to use it as a way to find someone who had not even sold a gun but accuse him of selling weapons is power gaming and not true.
RE: .Jarz Meta-Power Gaming. - yarrrs - 05-14-2015
(05-14-2015, 03:40 AM)Rolorox Wrote: Edit: Also you need to realize not every person in the world is in the police database. Especially not having a record, so to use it as a way to find someone who had not even sold a gun but accuse him of selling weapons is power gaming and not true.If you're a licensed gun dealer, you bet your sweet ass you have a record in the system, but now that's out of the way, in real life, I have never ONCE have had a name not show up, nor have I ever ONCE had an officer tell me a story of a guy who had no name in the database.
You need to realize you're overthinking this.
as to your original remark:
This seems to me like another case of admins making bullshit up out of their ass. I have NEVER had a problem doing this. I didn't metagame to see he was a gundealer, I couldn't give a flying fck if he was or not, however by the time I was done running him out I noted he was a gundealer, where I proceeded to ask for the ticket for the parking job. For the 5th or so time, I will say again, that I never intended to arrest him for being a gundealer. But his ass attitude changed my mind. If it makes you feel better, he was getting arrested either way since he wasn't paying the citation.
I have a question, mr. administrator.
Since I can't properly RP as a police officer in your city, please tell me how to do so? Also tell me why others get to do the exact same thing, yet I can't?
RE: .Jarz Meta-Power Gaming. - yarrrs - 05-14-2015
I also want to point out in a seperate post because I guess that my original explanation was not read or something, that I never accused him of selling weapons, or anything of the sort. I however did say he was a weapons dealer AFTER I noticed his shittitude. Again, I never wanted to arrest him for being a job, but I added it in because why not.
RE: .Jarz Meta-Power Gaming. - Rolorox - 05-14-2015
(05-14-2015, 03:59 AM)yarrrs Wrote: I also want to point out in a seperate post because I guess that my original explanation was not read or something, that I never accused him of selling weapons, or anything of the sort. I however did say he was a weapons dealer AFTER I noticed his shittitude. Again, I never wanted to arrest him for being a job, but I added it in because why not.I am pretty sure everyone is fine with the original arrest reason (not including the gun dealer part), it is the meta/power gaming that is more concerning. Also the argument can be made that even if he had a store, which I am not sure, the argument could be made that he just had a business license and without sufficient evidence of him selling guns even with a gun selling license it is not a reason. Because he could have had the license for half his life, then this law was made, then he stopped selling guns. The license would still be on his record I guess. But again arresting him for selling guns would be failrp itself as he was not doing so.
RE: .Jarz Meta-Power Gaming. - yarrrs - 05-14-2015
(05-14-2015, 04:17 AM)Rolorox Wrote:(05-14-2015, 03:59 AM)yarrrs Wrote: I also want to point out in a seperate post because I guess that my original explanation was not read or something, that I never accused him of selling weapons, or anything of the sort. I however did say he was a weapons dealer AFTER I noticed his shittitude. Again, I never wanted to arrest him for being a job, but I added it in because why not.I am pretty sure everyone is fine with the original arrest reason (not including the gun dealer part), it is the meta/power gaming that is more concerning. Also the argument can be made that even if he had a store, which I am not sure, the argument could be made that he just had a business license and without sufficient evidence of him selling guns even with a gun selling license it is not a reason. Because he could have had the license for half his life, then this law was made, then he stopped selling guns. The license would still be on his record I guess. But again arresting him for selling guns would be failrp itself as he was not doing so.
Did you seriously just say that just because he has a gun dealer license, it doesn't mean he's a gun dealer?
Am I being toyed with at this point?
Please clarify:
Quote: I have a question, mr. administrator.Also, I want the lie posted in the original post to be brought up. He claimed to not be involved with any weapons deals, yet was in the middle of one when I contacted him.
Since I can't properly RP as a police officer in your city, please tell me how to do so? Also tell me why others get to do the exact same thing, yet I can't?
RE: .Jarz Meta-Power Gaming. - yarrrs - 05-14-2015
Quote: Because he could have had the license for half his life, then this law was made, then he stopped selling guns.
His IC age is 46. Not that old. This information would also be in the database, but there was no point to bring up age in my contact with this guy. I want to note also his suit makes him look 25.
RE: .Jarz Meta-Power Gaming. - Nevy - 05-14-2015
Alright, so let me tell you what I am observing form OP's video and statements and I will list them along with any comments that I have to make regarding them.
DarkAngel had been stopped for 'illegally parking' on the side of the road, which did warrant him for a fine/citation. The question I have is regarding your statement that you identified him as a Gun Dealer after he raised an attitude with you. My comments/concerns are the following:
- Video #1 shows him arguing with you and a comment can be heard saying '10 seconds' which we can imply is you telling him he has that many seconds to comply with whatever you were asking him to do (I make the assumption it was to face the vehicle or pay the fine, but that information is unimportant). After he begins to argue and question your reasoning you then proceed to detain him with handcuffs which was appropriate according to his failure to follow 148pc regarding delaying/obstructing your duties.
- Video #2 shows the continuation of the argument along with the reasoning for the arrest, which was stated over voice communication as "148pc and weapons are illegal " which brought in the issue surrounding the information that he was a Gun Dealer. As you said, you looked him up in the supposed 'Police Database' which is technically a form of Power-Gaming, which is the act of forcing an action against a player to basically give you the advantage/upperhand. In this case, you are creating a method for you to gain information about his job that he would have no way to argue against. There is no indication that he is a 'licensed' weapons dealer, but you forced that on him by saying you found that through the database. This is an incorrect way of obtaining information, but it has been done before many times so there is no reason to enforce this when it is not widely enforced, nor is it explained in detail in the rules as the Power-Gaming rule currently only shows the example of switching jobs for self-gain. (One way of actually enforcing this IC'ly would be to have a law that made Gun Dealers apply for a license to sell a weapon to actually be able to use that information)
- @Jarz, his statement regarding not selling a weapon was truthful, though he had been in contact with another person but was simply discussing a meet up location to exchange money for ammunition. OP never stated that he never was in talks with anyone about selling weapons, though he did say he did not sell any weapons and I will provide the chat logs to back that up.
Quote:v33x [01:50:07] Doug (STEAM_0:1:58451446) said: /pm Dark I need some ammo
v33x [01:50:37] - \/G - DarkAngelx (STEAM_0:1:41099431) said: /pm Doug Where too sir?
v33x [01:50:37] Doug (STEAM_0:1:58451446) said: /pm dark 7.62x51MM Nato
v33x [01:50:48] Doug (STEAM_0:1:58451446) said: /r Prepare 4 shipments and bring it to the villsa please.
v33x [01:51:18] - \/G - DarkAngelx (STEAM_0:1:41099431) said: /me hands over his license and regs to the officer
v33x [01:51:33] - \/G - DarkAngelx (STEAM_0:1:41099431) said: /pm Doug 1 sec just got pulled over
Now regarding OP and the Player Report, thank you both for your patience.
While the player in question had seemed to gain information through a form of power-gaming/meta-gaming, to which he supplied on the arrest reason, his statements along with video evidence backs his statement that the reason for arrest was surrounding your failure to comply with his orders.
Denied.